Curse

Bobby2 · Jan 17, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napalm Flame

lol @ blind and block

Fixed.

Me: [wild strike], sometimes even [assassin's remedy]
Heroes: [rip enchantment][rend enchantments][foul feast]... and whatnot

learn to Sin plz

Konig Des Todes · Feb 19, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napalm Flame

i herd palm strike is actually now a damn good elite with 75+ armor ignoring damage with cripple straight off the bat.

This guide was made before the buff. Do take note of times.

Although I do think that a revision of the guide is needed due to said skill changes.

Paul Dawg · Mar 15, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Another very good skill for scythesins is [radiant scythe]. Well-built assassins tend to have a lot of energy flowing in, and with the higher damage cap (+41 at 12 Scythe Mastery), it's often more effective than [eremite's attack] or [mystic sweep]. Yes, they have a slightly lower recharge time, but you're going to be spamming other scythe attacks too (like [wounding strike]--see below). In my experience, the 6-second recharge time for [radiant scythe] really doesn't make a difference.

I agree that [wounding strike] is probably the best elite for a scythesin, but you should follow it up with [malicious strike]. The automatic critical hit on top of approximately +27 damage makes this a wipeout combination.

Lastly, you recommend a sundering mod for a scythesin. Why not vampiric? More better!

Edited to add: This is a solid basic PvE scythesin bar:

[critical agility][way of the master][way of perfection][aura of holy might (luxon)][ebon battle standard of honor][wounding strike][malicious strike][radiant scythe]

If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of extra damage for health influx, you can use [victorious sweep] or even [reap impurities] instead of [radiant scythe]. Also, you could use [critical eye] instead of [way of perfection], but in my opinion you really don't need the extra energy or crit-hit chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

Scythe Skills - Big ones are

[skill]Eremites Attack[/skill] + [skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill] due to there big bonus’s, short recharge, and short activation times

[skill]Wearying Strike[/skill] is also used in conjunction with [skill]Assassins Remedy[/skill] to get rid of the weakness.

[skill]Wounding Strike[/skill] Spammable deep wound whats not to love?

moritsuna · Apr 06, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Well done guide, I know this is late, but I'm new to the game and It will help me alot

_Nihilist_ · Apr 06, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

[Reaper's [email protected]] > [Wounding [email protected]] imho; I'd rather have bonus damage on my Elite, not to mention that if you hit while the enemy is above 50% hp it is bonus damage + enchantment removal and if you hit while the enemy is below 50% hp it is bonus damage + Deep Wound. You can follow Reaper's with Malicious just as you would Wounding, with the added benefit of 2 shots of bonus damage.

Xenomortis · Apr 06, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

[Reaper's Sweep] makes for a better finishing spike than [Wounding Strike]. The enchantment removal is a bonus and is a bonus that brings it above WS.
Basically, I agree with Tyrael.

Bobby2 · Apr 06, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Still, 8 seconds is a LOT. Too much for me, in fact.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 06, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Why is 8 seconds too much when you are going to be spamming [Mystic Sweep (PvE)@12] and [eremite's attack (PvE)@12] and hitting crits like beating a pinata? Just because the rest of your skillbar is either fire-and-forget enchants and spammable attacks doesn't mean your Elite has to be.

I'm much more satisfied with an Elite that does something other than applying a condition every 3 seconds, especially when you have to use a follow-up attack - in this case, [Malicious Strike] for your Elite to do much of anything.

Before anyone cries about how DW is ~100dmg and reduction of healing effect, you have to hit with an attack after the Deep Wound for it to "trigger". I'd much rather get bonus damage + DW (much like the bar compression from [[email protected]] on old-school Axe Warriors) than Bleeding + DW before landing [Malicious Strike].

12+1+1 Critical Strikes
12 Scythe Mastery

[Critical Agility][Aura of Holy Might][Way of the [email protected]][Mystic Sweep (PvE)@12][Eremite's Attack (PvE)@12][Reaper's [email protected]][Malicious [email protected]][empty]

This build should work more than well enough. IAS, AoHM (because if you aren't using it you're wasting possible damage), increased Crit chance, two 4sec cd attacks for quick dmg, Reapers + Malicious for a nasty spike when the enemy is <50% hp, and an empty slot for whatever you might need.

Bobby2 · Apr 06, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Why is 8 seconds too much when you are going to be spamming [Mystic Sweep (PvE)@12] and [eremite's attack (PvE)@12] and hitting crits like beating a pinata? Just because the rest of your skillbar is either fire-and-forget enchants and spammable attacks doesn't mean your Elite has to be.

Why, yes it has. 4 seconds is annoyingly long as well, nevermind 6.

snaek · Apr 06, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

deep wound > bonus attack dmg, therefore [wounding strike] > [reaper's sweep]

zling · Apr 07, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

deep wound > bonus attack dmg, therefore [wounding strike] > [reaper's sweep]

last time I checked [reaper's sweep] also causes Deep Wound, so nice trolling... :S

snaek · Apr 07, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

mostly because his health will go from 100% to 0% in a matter of seconds.
dw has benefits of being triggered earlier, such as the healing reduction effects. later can be okie too, but it definitely cannot be last as you'd still need an additional hit to trigger the death.

but thats not the point. the point is re-application, not application. monsters will die faster than the recharge on [[reaper's sweep] will be ready. your not going to use [[reaper's sweep] twice on the same enemy just like your not going to use [[wounding strike] twice on the same enemy (unless dw gets removed). which is another factor too...if dw gets removed from [[reaper's sweep], your screwed for another 8seconds--with [[wounding strike] you can easily put it back on.

@zling...unconditional spammable dw > conditional long-recharge dw

_Nihilist_ · Apr 07, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

I'll agree to disagree.

I've said it before, I can see the use of a 3sec reapplication of DW.

IMHO, saying that the quick reapplication of DW is the entire point of Wounding > Reaper's on a CritScythe Sin only validates my opinion that Reaper's > Wounding on that bar, as the extra bonus damage balances the longer recharge, and the fact that instead of having 1 effect (since a CritScythe will always be enchanted you will always get Bleed + DW using Wounding), you can actually choose between either Enchant Removal or DW, both w/ bonus damage by using Reaper's.

Maybe I'm just too used to playing my Warrior and not having a set recharge, but rather having to build my ADR from scratch instead of having a self-regenerating energy pool and dealing with recharges/cooldowns.

Again, to snaek and the others advocating that Wounding > Reaper's on a CritScythe bar, have fun with Wounding, I'll run Reaper's. I agree that your optimal choice is not my optimal choice, and we can get back to playing GW.

snaek · Apr 07, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

bonus dmg isn't affected by critical hits...on the other hand 14/15/16 attrib pts in scythe mastery on a derv primary would. so i'm not sure why your emphasizing the "crit sin" part so much. no matter what your crit % will be, deep wound will always prevail. sure, you might see big numbers from using [[reaper's sweep] that you won't see from using [[wounding strike]. but [[wounding strike] will still do more dmg overall.

i think your underestimating the power of deep wound.

i'll argue from your point of view--the bonus dmg:
the problem with [[reaper's sweep] is that [[mystic sweep] and [[malicious strike] produce more dmg than it, and possibly [[eremite's attack] does as well. there is too much redundancy in +dmg attack skills. the only way [[reaper's sweep] will outdmg these other non-elite attack skills, is if the deep wound triggers. but even then, it barely keeps up with the slow recharge.

also, enchant removal is also quite neglible on a scythe sin for pve. so if the deep wound condition is not met...you basically just wasted an attack skill.

Paul Dawg · Apr 07, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I'm going to have to agree with snaek about all this, especially the last part. Removing enchantments is something that other professions can do quite easily with skills like [rip enchantment], [drain enchantment], etc. So leave it to your heroes or party-mates; it's hardly something that should come into play when considering what skill to put in your elite slot. The three-second recharge on [wounding strike] means that it's almost always ready for you--as opposed to [reaper's sweep], which isn't always ready and isn't very useful against opponents with over 50% health anyway.

Ferminator · Apr 13, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Hi, I love your guide but you forgot [skill]Golden Skull Strike[/skill] as the other lead skip.

Prayash · Jul 04, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

3. Attributes

Critical Strikes- Arguably the best energy management in the game. This will allow you to spam more attack skills and deal big time damage on your target. Generally, while using a melee build, it shouldn’t be lower then 12 (13 is the best as you get +3 energy per critical).
Dagger Mastery- Allows for even more big damage. 14 is recommended for all dagger based builds.
Shadow Arts- All the sins self heals lie in this category however since we get to bring monks we don’t use this attribute a whole lot except for when farming. However it is nice to take advantage of some of its healing skills such as [skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill] or [skill]Way of Perfection[/skill]
Deadly Arts- Not used much in PvE as it mostly deals with spiking however [skill]Assassins Promise[/skill] allows for a spammable spike which works in low level pve.

4. Skills

I. Dagger Mastery- Meet your best friends [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] . These are the general two skills on most every dagger based sin bar. You will generally want to add a quick recharging lead and offhand to complement the chain. Lead can really be anything [skill]Sneak Attack[/skill] is fun however it takes up a PvE skill slot as you can only have three. For offhands the two main ones to consider are [skill]Wild Strike[/skill] and [skill]Golden Fang Strike[/skill] . Wild Strike is unblock able and provides a large damage buff while also removing pesky stances however GFS brings in deep wound which is an amazing condition no matter how you look at it.
For those of you who have no access to moebius strike(and who want to run a dagger build) i would suggest brining a short recharging chain something that goes like this: [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill] ->[skill]Wild Strike[/skill] -> [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] then add [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] and [skill]Critical Eye[/skill] to your bar to increase energy and increase attack speed/armor levels.

II. Critical Strikes- The Big 6 are [skill]Way of the Master[/skill] [skill]Critical Eye[/skill] [skill]Critical Strike[/skill] [skill]Assassins Remedy[/skill] [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill] and [skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill]. Way of the Master + Critical Eye pretty much guarantees a critical hit and is an extremely smart choice when using a non dagger weapon. Critical Strike is extremely popular choice as it’s like your energy button. At 13 critical Strikes it gives you 12 energy(as you gain 3 from the effect and 3 from your critical strikes attribute twice) and keeps up critical defenses/agility. Twisting Fangs is sometimes thrown in as it can bring a foe down to half health very quickly allowing for faster skill recharge when combined with moebius. Critical Defenses/Assassin’s remedy are great utility enchantments and should be taken according to the area your playing in.

III. Shadow Arts- [skill]Shadow Form[/skill] used as a A/Me you can maintain SF permanently. You will want to bring Arcane Echo and Deadly Paradox along then activate the skills in this order: Deadly Paradox -> Arcane Echo -> SF -> Deadly Paradox -> echoed SF -> rinse and repeat. This following link will take you to a sin UW farm using perma form http://youtube.com/watch?v=m091kivP5pk for those of you who are visual learners

. Due to a recent up date it is now possible to run the perma shadow form build with a A/E using [build=A/E Permaformer;OwZQMSfekODAAAAAAAAA]. Nerfs have basically taken SF out as a viable farming option however it can still be used as a running build.

IV. Deadly Arts- [skill]Assassins Promise[/skill] can be fun in low level pve as you can spike down most targets then just move onto the next one. This can be combined with any assassin spike build that doesn’t require an elite dagger attack. A common one would be [skill]Assassins Promise[/skill] -> [skill]Deaths Charge[/skill] -> [skill]Tiger Stance[/skill] -> [skill]Black Mantis Thrust[/skill] -> [skill]Jungle Strike[/skill] -> [skill]Trampling Ox[/skill] -> [skill]Falling Lotus Strike[/skill] -> [skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill] however any combo may be used as long as it kills fast and efficiently. It is also also possible to drop your IAS for a utility such as [skill]Disrupting Dagger[/skill] or [skill]Siphon Speed[/skill] as AP will keep there high recharges down. . Another example would be this build [build=Assassin's Promise Sin;OwBj0te7ISLQ2kEgGfXhKM8PvZA] this one uses the PvE skill You Move Like A Dwarf to gain a knockdown so as you can see you can be creative with these builds

Along with dagger chains AP also allows the usage of some of the other deadly arts spells. Standard deadly arts chain is [skill]Dancing Daggers[/skill] [skill]Entangling Asp[/skill] [skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill] [skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill] [skill]Augury of Death[/skill]. Now this chain on its own can deal some reasonable amounts of damage however you can also bring some PvE skills into the mix. [skill]"Finish Him!"[/skill] works great with a decent norn rank due to a high amount of damage + deep wound and cracked armor (replaces augury). [skill]Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support[/skill] is also a nice choice as AP also deals with its high recharge and the fact that your foe will already be poisoned allows your assassin to land a kd with his [skill]Iron Palm[/skill]. Any amount of skills can be used but its highly recommended to bring a source of deep wound and another damage skill besides dancing daggers/SoTS. An example deadly arts AP build would be [build=Deadly Arts Sin;OwBi4xjMZmp1Ax8mFTuAtCKAA]]*build courtesy of UnrealHavoc

While using a pure deadly arts build it is recommended to bring a +1 deadly arts mask with a major rune of deadly arts (+2) attached as this will give you a nice boost in damage and since your going to be at half range you can afford the health loss.

Hey, when you type the [skill ]skillname[ /skill] thing and stuff, all i can see is letters, how come I can't see the skill icon?

syphonus · Jul 05, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

the code hasn't been working for a while now.

ensoriki · Feb 04, 2011, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Revision is needed for this whole guide if anything, a lot of things have changed, a lot of things nerfed, some buffed. I wouldn't say we really have the same assassin anymore.

syphonus · Feb 05, 2011, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Revision is needed for this whole guide if anything, a lot of things have changed, a lot of things nerfed, some buffed. I wouldn't say we really have the same assassin anymore.

I thought about writing one after Jeydra's updated ele guide, but I doubt I'll get around to it. Still you're right, it's badly in need of revision.